This one is curious

This one has noticed that there are a few drell here that do not serve under the Compact. Which this one finds... intriguing. It wonders if it would be too much if it could ask why those of you chose this option.

It apologizes in advance if this question is too intrusive.

Noble Hanar.
I cannot (and will not) speak for any other Drell, but for my part I did not feel called to the Compact. I grew up on the Citadel, a permanent alien without a homeworld to speak of. Even my culture was largely lost to me. In part due to the Drell over reliance on perfect memories and oral tradition. I had to find answers, and to see if other races were not so lucky. So I chose the life of a scholar over that of the compact.
That said I am grateful to the Hanar for saving my people and would not speak against the Compact. It is a fine trade willingly entered into. But it is not the life for me. I hope that you find this enlightening Humble one.

With respect,
Arash Hari

No, it is not. Parents, protect your children!

Esteemed Hanar, I think that if you examined the compact closely, the reason for my dis-satisfaction would be evident.

Starting with the part where, as a minor, I was asked to kill people and then got blacklisted when I broke said Compact. I am not the slightest bit in hearing that this doesn't happen, that it's an exception, any of that. Minors should never be compacted for any reason, because they are not mature enough to enter into contracts. But using minors for military and and assassination work is a vile, unconscionable abuse of trust.

As part of compact agreements, many drell receive hyper-specialized training instead of the general education that would allow them to pursue independent careers as adults-and it's the soldiers and assassins who really suffer from this.

Thirdly, the current compact system often involves separating drell children from their parents for long periods. You carry your own children on your backs, you know this isn't right. It interferes with the transmission of culture. It interferes with the formation of deep relationships.

This one has other objections, but let us address these ones first.

Ah. It sees...

This one wishes the other luck it supposes


This one will remind the other that the parents of these compactees agree to offer their children for the Compact. None of these parents are forced into it and these children are treated with the utmost respect and dignity that the Compact requires.

It believes the other is over exaggerating.

Outside point of view here, sorry, but I kind of see Capice's point. A life of violence is something that one should choose for oneself. I would NOT be happy if my parents had chosen for me to become a soldier or an assassin. And obviously those kids of neither the means nor the judgement to make a choice here.

...And what part am I exaggerating? The part where using children for military purposes isn't cool, or the part where children need their parents.

I don't care if it's voluntary, it's still wrong, and besides, when are we going to have paid this thing off?

There's, er, quite a bit of focus on this issue lately. Capice, have you seen - (Daughter's Eyes, I can't believe I'm saying this) - have you seen the latest episode of Space Protectors? That supposed children's show with the coded messages? They post links on the forum, of course, so you probably know it. Anyway, the latest episode just got posted. It's pretty much about exactly what you're describing. Children having their future opportunities taken from them. There's even a plot about the drells' collected cultural memory being hijacked. And they make comparisons to turian schooling. I wondered what you thought of it.

You might have friends in high places on this, is what I'm saying.

The drell are free to leave whenever the choose. Participating in the Compact is, as was said earlier completely up to the individual, or in those cases where extensive training will be required the compactee's parents.


We are all like a string of kelp in turbulent waters; rarely able to choose our own paths

This one hopes that translated correctly and not into something incomprehensible.


Please do not mention anything from that show or network in this thread.

I have to admit, a lot of drell rights activists don't get this one right either (it's kind of disappointing for them): most drell don't want to leave. For better or worse, they are Primacy citizens now. So I ask again, when are they going to have paid this thing off? That's kind of the defining point of debt, that you can pay it back, otherwise it's just exploitative varrenshit. Or were you importing a eternal underclass?


...Are you KIDDING me?
-
Nobody is doing this to Hanar children. And every child who ends up in military service is signed by, trained by, handled by sentient beings who are making (im)moral and (un)ethical choices. Nobody is kelp here.




Oh no, we are totally going to have a discussion about drell representation in Space Protector(z) after I finish watching the episode.

And some people wonder why I love you.

Oh gods, I needed to hear that. I think everything I'm saying is just bouncing off.

Child soldiers bad! Family good!

On that note, I sent you some new designs.

Huu barely... Does it mean that no matter what we don't have much input on our destiny so we might as well decide for kids they'll be soldiers or assassins? Isn't the role of a caring society to help everyone have a fair chance at life and be able to make their own choices?

Mr Humble, I think I need to weigh in on these matters, regarding underage compactees.

Many societies have laws to protect children from the poor decisions of adults. Decisions that are not in the child's best interest. The Terminus is filled with children whose parents sold them into slavery, or to brothels, or for cannon fodder in armies. "Extensive training" does not make this okay. And putting a loophole in the laws of an otherwise civilized people to allow it is not okay either.

Let me give you two examples.

I know a gentleman who, as a young adult, chose to leave his family and his girlfriend and be, in essence, taken apart, stripped down and built back up as a killer. He is now a somewhat broken and deeply regretful middle aged man, however, he made his choice to live that lifestyle as an autonomous adult, and when given the opportunity between serving his nation and walking away, he chose to serve.

I also know an adolescent girl who, as a child, did not need to be taken apart by a military because she was brought up by her father to be an assassin. She's highly trained, extremely deadly and now exhibiting all the typical drama of an adolescent turian. She likes to think a bullet is the first and best solution to life's problems and I suspect both she and her caregivers are going to spend the rest of their lives trying to rein in her destructive impulses. The worst part is her birth father thought this was in her and his family's best interests, but you don't see him around taking responsibility for the final product of his training.

She's very bright and could have contributed to society in any number of ways - and still might if we can keep her out of prison - but it's going to be extremely and unnecessarily difficult and that doesn't even begin to compensate for the lives she took.

My gentleman friend's experience was an unfortunate consequence of his choices. My sister's experience was and has been a consequence of our father's choices.

So, no, you cannot trust parents to always act in their child's best interest. Laws are in place to protect children from parents who act selfishly or thoughtlessly or irrationally.

i'm not the one who went to prison vindi

just sayin'

Then this one sees no problem then. Most esteemed Pesh. If they are choosing to become citizens of the Primacy and taking up the traditions of the hanar of their own free-will then there is not much else to say.


This one must apologize in advance because it fears that it what is to come next may seen rude and insensitive to the other. Please do not take this in offense.

The other's experiences are very unlike the Compact. Especially the child. Whom's training, this one once again apologize for the bluntness of this statement, was not extensive enough. We, as this one said earlier, treat the children offered with the utmost respect and most humane of treatment. Unlike the child you speak of, who was clearly trained by an unprofessional, abusive criminal whom did not care for the well-being of this child.

This one wishes the other luck in maybe fixing that mistake.


Which the other will probably need.

skhash never get why hanar think they need train drell kids to be assassins. why not just hire old ones like everyone else?


skhash will use metaphor explain how skhash see compact.

compact is like mosh pit. and hanar are crowd surfer on top of it.

then you have drell who leave compact. because maybe they don't want to mosh. maybe they want to break-dance instead.

but you can't break-dance in a mosh pit. so they have to leave and can't be with other drell who are in mosh pit.

understand what skhash mean?

Not really. The fact that most people don't want to be exiled from their society, families, or jobs, doesn't mean that system doesn't need to change.

I've been using simple words, Humble Hanar. When will the debt be paid? When will the Primacy drell simply be considered a part of their society, allowed to take leadership positions without a hanar to supervise them? Or are we to be second class forever?

If the compact is good, it should be good for hanar children. You will think that is ridiculous, because you know the compact is for servants and muscle. Deep down you think there's still something wrong with us.



Oh gods, I had to get up and walk around the room a couple times after reading this VS. You know, I'm not really getting a lot of respect from this conversation.

In short: You are wrong. For the worst compacts there's effectively no difference. For the better ones, Vindi's point still holds.

Removing children from their parents (provided the parents aren't abusive dicks, and most drell parents-even drell parents who sign-aren't) and deliberately isolating them is an abusive act in and of itself.

Forcing children to witness and commit extreme violence is an abusive act in and of itself.

Using children for military service is not an act of caring and love!

Anyone who finds this as frustrating as I do, the best people doing work in this field are Compact Legal Defense and The Thane Krios Memorial Fund.


...Yes, that is totally the kind response to hearing that a small child was raised as an assassin. That's rude. Really rude.

I fear, Mr. Hanar, that I am going to have to use personal examples, as there are some matters which still seem to be unclear.

Trex, my ward, is my half-sister. We were raised by the same father. Yes, he was a criminal, and an addict as well, and I suspect he worsened in later life. Trex was ...I don't know the word. Rented to? Employed by? Sold to? ...criminal elements on Omega. I was drafted into an army to fight for the glorious cause.

The worst of it is, I cannot say my parents didn't have my best interests at heart. Everyone else's children were either breeders and victims-to-be or cannon fodder; I had a position of very much respect in my community, with verses of battle-songs in my honour (which is about as good as respect gets in the mountains of Solregit). Respect kept my family's bellies full, Mr. Humble Hanar.

And yet I doubt whether further training could have fixed this situation. A situation, Mr. Hanar, where the best way for my parents to care for me and my siblings was to sacrifice us on the altar of the glorious cause because that was the best of all possible options. And, I think, that is the case for the drell these days. If they want honour, status, a comfortable living, the easiest and best way to do so is under Compact, and so the bargain is made.

The bargain is rotten, Mr. Hanar.

I feel strongly enough that I am going to take the calculated risk of speaking frankly on a public forum. There are many here who will tell you that I have done very well for myself given my impoverished childhood and teenage, ah, delinquency. Let me be the first to tell you that I still live surrounded by weapons because I cannot conceive of myself living any other way.

I've had to ask my shaman for assistance with metaphor, and this is what he provided me: I might be captain of my own soul, Mr. Hanar, but my vessel was created a warship, and warship I will be, no matter where I steer.

Can't you guys just train adult volunteers? I imagine it's not as efficient, but do you really need those child soldiers that much?

Lovely... You remind me of my landlord...

I am surprised, girl. There are no swaths of people jumping down your throat and calling you a heartless being who can't appreciate all the things the hanar gave you, simply because you oppose you oppose their institutionalized slavery. If more your age shared your mindset, we would not be the lapdogs of the hanar.