This one is curious

And you are surprised why?

Seriously, I think the drell rights movement needs to get over this 'lapdog' language. We're never going to get anywhere unless we get the majority of Compacted, Enkindled drell on board. We especially need them because they're the people with the connections, and because they're the ones who compact their children and like, perpetuate this thing.

Because let's face it, I am an independent who is going to have her children with a priest of the old faith. I will be fine. You will be fine too. But an awful lot of people are not fine.

Mostly because the Citadel has accepted the Compact for the past few centuries. The death of a minor in service to the Primacy helped pushed the Drell Rights movement back into mainstream consciousness, at least for a little while, but many still do not know the negative impact of the Compact. I remember when I first joined the Boards, many still felt that the Compact was fair to drell and hanar.

And, you do make an excellent point here. The hanar would certainly notice if there servants simply stopped serving them - perhaps then they would realize the cruelty of the Compact. Or, more likely, they would be willing to listen to Drell Rights activists, just so they can try to get their cheap labor back.

Purity tests are for suckers. More to the point, they're a way to divide us.

I think you're missing something, though. It's not just that the hanar want servants. The hanar (well, everyone, but we're ragging on the hanar here) want to think that they are good. He's not all "And we will keep the drell down forever, hahahah!" like a bad holo villian, he's arguing himself into ridiculous knots because being 'a good friend to the drell' (I know, I know, ugh) is an important part of his identity.

As you can see, I'm not having much luck breaking through the layer of willful ignorance and varrenshit, but I believe it's possible for hanar to be good allies on this.

The biggest problem right now is their insistence to think there is nothing wrong to draft children as long as the parents are cool with it. Is that a hanar thing? Like in their own society, is it natural that if the parents decide something the kid should go along with it?
Laykalar if you're reading this we could use your input.

This one is conflicted. It supposes such is not at all a negative thing! It thanks the respectable others for their commentary, as this discussion has given this one much to think about. It knows from its own experience that its people are often unwilling to explore ideas that challenge accepted doctrines, which saddens it (this one finds it somewhat difficult to articulate this; it does not wish to suggest it believes it knows more than its honoured elders!). It suspects that these ones' historical isolationism crests and crashes within the boundaries of these ones' relationship with our honoured Compactees, also. This one wonders if comprehension of the drell perspective is lacking.

This one feels it should note that the population of drell within the Primacy is small. While most hanar will encounter drell over the course of their lives, a great many will never know one intimately. This one is of the belief that it is through integration with the perspectives of others that these ones achieve greatest illumination. New and sophisticated arguments are enkindled when disparate perspectives are voiced in unity. It has always viewed the Compact as a validation of this philosophy; a successful synergy of two disparate racial identities. It certainly understands the argument of the other, Capice, however.

This one has recently taken employment with a charitable organization, wherein it works with displaced youngsters left unmoored and drifting. It has hoped to install in these disadvantaged youngsters the understanding that they may take control of their future and strike out with purpose, rather than remain trapped in the currents of fate. Further, that they should not be confined by the wishes of those who would force them into roles not of their choosing. It hopes it is being effective in articulating this! The young beings gathered at the shelter are being prayed upon by criminal elements, which seek to utilize them in expansion of distressingly anti-social activity. The issue at proximate mooring is of loving parents engaged in similar behaviours - utilizing the young for dangerous and sometimes distasteful actions - but in their case lawfully, and for the good of the Primacy, in most honourable thanks for the salvation of their species. This one recognises the inherent similarity, and the discomfort it brings. As it has said previously, it is conflicted; it confesses it is not sure what to think. This one admits to having been ignorant in the past regarding some drells' distaste for the practices that the Compact encompasses. However, it is of the understanding that the majority of drell support the tradition. It would not wish to tell these others that they were in error. Should the honourable other, Capice, successfully convince them of such, then this one would not oppose their wishes either!

This one hopes it is not flashing weakly here, or seems too limp in its bearing.

This one is proud that the hanar have acted to preserve the multiplicity of the Many Voices by submersing the remnants of the drell. It occurs to this one that the very word it uses here - submersing - is comforting to a hanar perspective, but may carry connotations of danger and threat to a drell, as they are a people adapted to arid conditions. It wonders if this linguistic curiosity is symptomatic of the problem! Do these ones understand how their perspective differs from that of the drell, or have these ones erred in encouraging the drell to think as hanar think? This one believes that embracing the perspectives of others as a means of expanding its spiritual awareness will lead this one and others to ever brighter truths and allow formulation of ever more advanced arguments. That understanding the illumination offered by these ones' honoured companions might challenge the foundation of our partnership...This one doesn't know what to think.

It hopes it has not been too vague.

As amazing as it is considering how much you wrote, I think you missed the point a little Laykalar. Right now the compact in general is not the subject matter, it's the automatic application of it on children who can't make a choice. If an adult Drell wants to enlist in the Kahje armed forces to thank the hanar for their assistance, I think everyone's ok with it. But surely enforcing in on children can't be right.

This phrase, with it's connotations of ownership, kind of illustrates the issue.


I'm going to point out, that in order to benefit from diversity, you need to have a healthy drell culture. Perhaps even one with independent institutions. If you want synergy and the power of competing ideals then the drell need to be strong enough to challenge you. Full stop.


Are you seriously blaming the drell for compact abuses? Like we're the one who dictate this institution? You would totally change it, but the drell are just so grateful? Seriously?


You are far too limp in your bearing. I would like to see at least one hanar firmly commit to the idea that is not moral to use children as assassins and soldiers during peacetime (or any non-Reaper war).

I consider this a fairly low bar. It's not eliminating the entire compact, it's not giving the DLF parliament seats, it's affirming on a frigging extranet forum that your government shouldn't use children as assassins.

And you just won't do it! Do you really think this is a good thing? Would you do this to hanar polyps? Would you do it to your own children?

Batarians should take notes from the hanar. This is how you present slavery as integral part of your culture and get away with it!

This public relations marvel has been to focus of many studies. The consensus is that although the hanar should be praised for that excellent spin, they also benefited from unique circumstances.

Send me links, please.

Certainly miss Pesh, here is a quick compilation, although more could be found :

"Slave caste and hanar compact : an equivalency" by Doctor Tahonar Mfrek.
"Is the compact the future of slavery?" by Goronak Malkrok, economist specialized in slave trade.
"Willing alien slave race : The hanar dream" by Doctor Klatra Mikkst.
"DRELL ARE SLAVES! WHY YOU NO UNDERSTAND IT!", an allocution by doctor Tritzz from the main university of Hesthock.

Uh, oh... so this boils down to batarian studies praising the compact as a 'excelent example in slavery'? That's strong, coming from the experts.
I have just not enough knowledge to have an educated opinion. I am following this exchange with interest though!


wait... WHAT??

...This is enkindling. Frankly enkindling.

If I don't get an A on this drell studies paper, I quit.

The debt will be repaid when the Illuminated Primacy has deemed it so most lively Pesh.

This one does not believe there is anything wrong with the drell. Far from it. This one enjoys their company compared to non-hanar whom are often difficult and alien to understand. And this one has several compactees aiding it at the moment and they are all most skilled at what this one needs them for.


Many apologies for the perceived rudeness. It would offer the other a free meal at the Hungry Tides. But it does not currently serve dextro species at this time.

Now, I'm not a drell, but I'm going speak anyway.

You didn't answer the question. If you don't believe that the drell are inferior, you shouldn't have an issue with your children being compacted as drell children are. Would you be willing to work for a drell instead of having them work for you?

Saving someone's life doesn't give you the right to take away their self-determination and place them in indefinite servitude.

Wow, cold...

Also any way you'd stop avoiding the core question here? I'll repeat it for comfort : Do you honestly believe it is morally ok to train children as soldiers or assassins disregarding their right to self determination?
Reminder : The fact that the parents are cool with it (following a centuries long guilt trip) does NOT count as respecting the right to self determination.

Seriously? This made me laugh so hard, I feared for my feeble drell lungs.

But yeah, Completely aside from the fact that the Primacy has no economic or military incentive to cancel the compact: That's not how a fair contract works.

A fair debt, an agreement between equals, has clearly defined terms. Limits. A neutral third party to mediate disputes.

It has noticed many misconceptions in this thread. It now has the time to clear the waters of this discourse.

The Compact is not a debt. It is not a contract. If the hanar were to see it as such, there would be no such thing as an 'independent drell'. The old gods would be spoken of only by scholars as beings that a let a species die, showing the grace of the hanar to save as many as they could. Serving us would be compulsory and we would treat you as the batarians treat their slaves - as little more than high-maintenance objects. While it is in no doubt there are hanar that feel that this should be the case, it most emphatically is not.

Serving in the Compact is an honour for drell raised on Kahje. That is the culture they have been raised in. It is something that has come from their community leaders. That is why it is unsurprising that the three drell that have posted in this thread are not under Compact, as they were not raised in the culture where they find serving the Compact as a great honour. It is the chance to say 'thank you' to the species that saved theirs. It is not without precedent to us. We worship the Enkindlers for uplifting us. Our actions towards the drell are minuscule compared to that blessing, thus we have the Compact, which some even say is too much.

Is this attitude exploited by powerful hanar? Of course it is. Families are approached and told their child would be a great boon to society. It has trouble finding an apt analogy. Their child would have a chance to better themselves, and pull up the family in return - the laser-like focus of the training and the very high chance the trainee will drop out make such a thing a risky investment. Not only that, the hanar would be expected to act as a lesser patron for the whole family, finding them good employment. It has not only a, for lack of a better word, spiritual benefit, but a practical one as well.

It is disingenuous to suggest that the majority of Compacted children are trained as soldiers or assassins. What happens is more akin to scholarships in other species - child prodigies are fast tracked to be our top diplomats, scientists or administrators, where their talents would be best used, and their adolescent years are not wasted in a broad education that offers them no challenge. This still represents the minority. Prodigies are not born every day. Most drell working for a hanar joined voluntarily as adults, after being asked or being given a hanar to 'study under', in a sense.

Part of the problem is that those people that approach parents with the words 'Your child has the great honour of serving the Primacy' are very unlikely to listen to protests. Especially if such protests come from aliens (their resolve might even grow in such circumstances). A far better course of action would be to change from within - a slower process, but one that will yield a better crop. Ensure there is a stronger drell voice in the Synod - not drell speaking for hanar, but drell speaking for drell. Many such voices on the synod are merely at 'cult' status for the moment, but they are growing. Getting a large hanar sect on one's side would also be hugely beneficial.

Ultimately, the Compact will only end with the drell. As it is not a debt or a contract, it lies entirely with the drell to walk away from it, as an individual and as a species. It is less than 200 years old, the drell (at least those on Kahje) still have the 'fervour' to wish to serve. In time, that may die down. But, by then, society will have changed. Even now, the hanar and drell live symbiotically. By the time the last Compact ends, it is likely that we will have become so intertwined that it will be impossible to live without the other. The drell rely on the hanar as we have provided a framework to allow them a say in galactic politics - it is unlikely that the drell would have an embassy on the Citadel, even by now. We rely on the drell just as much, to interact with other species - we are aware how different we are, and for centuries that was a barrier in politics and commerce. The Primacy is no longer a hanar institution - it is hanar and drell. Hanar led, certainly, but all things change. Some things faster than others.

...Did you start out with a swipe at my religion? Like, that's the first thing you wanted to say to me? Gods above.

I don't care how many drell buy it. I don't care what a tiny proportion the military children are. I am sick and tired of this minimizing varrenshit.

And how dare you put this on us. How dare you use the language of gratitude and gifts when this has long since become an economic arrangement that benefits you. How dare you float there and say that Compact is dictated by the group that doesn't have the power, or the property, or the pull.

Not a single hanar here has spoken up for those children. I've known good hanar. It's a shame you're not one of them.

This one has not a bad word to say about your religion. This one can only apologise for being unclear - in such a hypothetical situation where the Compact was a quantifiable debt to be paid by an entire species, it is entirely likely that we would take a much more active interest in what the drell are taught about their history. One such change would likely be the requirement that all drell must be Enkindled, and it merely suggested what the justification would likely be.

It will admit that it cannot speak for the drell on Kahje either, and whether they feel the choice is not being made for them, but rather the pressure from society. It can only say what it believes to be true. It disagrees that the Compact solely benefits us - it mentioned how it benefits drell as individuals and a species. It hesitates to say this, as it fear you will take this the wrong way, but your experience with the Compact was not normal. It seems as though you did not know what you were getting into and one should not be formally blacklisted for exiting.

Finally, this one did say the practice of training children to kill was 'exploitation' and a 'problem'. One, however, it cannot do anything about it at present.