Pirating Gang Wiped by Justicar - Humans, Batarians Dead

Where's the inequality? The Code applies equally to all within a Justicar's purview. 'Like' has nothing to do with it.

Us too, truly. At the same time, it's comforting to know they're there. As an asari (I think I can fairly speak for the majority, I'd say I'm pretty normal in this regard), we sleep a bit easier knowing they're guarding us, the Huntresses and the Justicars, the former from the enemies we might face, the latter from the enemies we might become.

Apologies to Miss Vesh for the discourtesy, but your assessment of what's wrong here is that there aren't more Eclipse around?

Justicars, as extremely rare as they are these days anyway, are mainly concerned about asari inside asari space. It is of near to no no danger to someone of another species sitting in the terminus. If you're not, like these idiots, get in the way that is.

Having seen one a long time ago, although admittedly from a distance, I tell you, they make you rethink you ways by their presence alone. Most will never see or meet one anyway but they are also a constant reminder just by existing.

Well a. the inequality stems from the somewhat (and by somewhat I mean entirely) hypocritical nature of the office when contrasted with the Republic's as a whole; ie. one is all about cultural achievement and acceptance and the other thinks decapitation is a perfectly reasonable response to tax evasion.

And b. the purpose of the Justicar is to defend and maintain asari societal norms. By definition "like" has everything to do with it.

Your secret police, beg pardon "cultural authority", needs work. Just saying.

Intelligence Ms. T'Nara. Intelligence.

And that, as morally worrying as it is, still has absolutely nothing to do with anything I posted.

...You know I was only half joking about the the whole "secret police" type thing but, in light of this seemingly prevalent attitude, I feel that I may have actually been on to something.

As you say Justicars are exceedingly uncommon, there's not nearly enough to effect broad improvements on a national scale with regards to violent crime, corruption, etc. So instead they function through fear and intimidation to help ensure that as few as possible deviate from the group. It's...rather unsettling frankly, practically medieval, and really the only thing that keeps it from being completely authoritarian in fact is that the whole idea is so poorly executed. Far too few and the threat of distant punishment alone is hardly enough to effectively manage the extra-legal element.

So, in essence, you all are terrible at being terrible.

You are recursively horrible.

Okay, I'll bow to your interpretation then, we 'like' the system of laws that's fostered internal peace and prosperity for a couple of millennia. I imagine you 'like' when your own criminals get arrested and tried. Still not seeing where you're getting inequality from.

You're acting like every C-Space government hasn't already sunk to those levels in the past and then hidden it. Or sunk to those levels and then brushed it off when called on it. Or sunk to those levels, and then shrugged and said 'well yeah, why wouldn't we' when told they should be better than this. Really, C-Space is just a better-dressed version of the Terminus. That's why I'm looking at this whole Justicar thing with the 'their house, their rules' mentality. This is no different from one Omegan street gang saying 'hey, we're better than those assholes one street over', despite every bit of evidence to the contrary.

The inequality exists somewhere between the "millennia long period of peace and prosperity for asari who maintain the status quo" and the "chance anyone who doesn't toe the line gets gunned down without trial or appeal by state sponsored vigilantes".

Also you are aware that in most penal and legal systems the default answer isn't "murder everyone". I mean you are technically correct, we do like it when our criminals are arrested and tried (in that there are criminals alive to arrest and try under the law) but it's not exactly comparable.

Excellent point Mekan, it really isn't that different from an Omegan street gang now is it?

You say that like the galaxy would ever operate any other way.

Justicars are willing to murder law enforcement and civilians to pursue a victim. They murder everyone they deem guilty without trial or legal recourse. The penalty is always death. There is no legal system and not much oversight.

They're 'Hard Sophonts Making Hard Decisions' taken to a ludicrous extreme, and it's extremely telling of the Republics Hypocrisy that they support these people.

Okay, one, 'state sponsored vigilante' is an oxymoron. Two, not committing crimes doesn't somehow become morally dubious just because you keep referring to it as 'maintaining the status quo'. Three, you still haven't explained where the inequality lies. Unless that's how you're processing the paradox of freedom only being possible within a system of laws. Did you skip class when they did moral philosophy?

(...she asks, suspecting the answer already.)

And yet rather fitting considering that the Justicar order is basically aided and abetted by the Republic's government (case in point this very article) and yet has virtually no oversight from the same leaving them free to pursue their own goals at their own discretion.

"Norms of asari society" raises some rather unpleasant implications considering the sheer rigidity of the Code and their reactions to perceived (not even actual, merely perceived) infractions of the same.


Aheh.

Bite your fuckin' tongue.

Which 'own goals' are these? Justicars act in accordance with the Code. The Code is a matter of public record, and the authority of the Order to implement it is endorsed by the Republics. How is this different to empowering a police officer to carry out their duty?

Justicars are some of the most highly-trained investigators in the galaxy, and the Code doesn't permit responses where guilt has not been determined to a degree consistent with the severity of the consequences.

...have you actually read the Code? Even a precis? I thought I saw somewhere a while ago that you were contemplating expanding your business with an office on Thessia, please tell me you're not sending your employees into the Republics with less research than I did to play a Justicar in a porn film.

I am a glorified figurehead CEO, and I still don't understand how you find time to waste on trawling through galaxytube finding all these links you post in lieu of debate. Or do you just employ someone you can tell to dig up a clip of a salarian comedian laughing when you need it?

Dear Goddess, you do, don't you?
And you still haven't addressed the point. Your own words: "Equal voice and rights for all, unless" - there is no 'unless'. The Justicar would have acted in exactly the same manner had any of the transgressors been you or me or the Matriarch Complet or the First Prime of the Protheans. All have the same voice, the same rights, and are subject to the same law. Your whole problem here seems to hinge on Justicars not varying their adherence to the Code based on whatever mitigating circumstances have occurred to you.

They murder anyone who gets in their way.

The rest of the galaxy calls that sort of person 'mercenaries' or 'war criminals' and generally treats them as vaguely distasteful sorts, if not outright criminals to be brought to justice.

The Asari Republics, meanwhile, calls that sort of person a justicar and exalts them as a hero.

Care to tell what the occasion was?

A huntress girlfriend of mine was once tasked with a cleanup after a Justicar had finished off a target but she had moved on already. It was an asari-trafficing ring leader so nobody cried over her, but some where shocked to discover the secret identity of that Matriarch.

Is it though? How old is your code? How old is the last time one of your laws was edited? One is the thousands of years, the other in mere hours I assume.
If us humans had people like that, working on an age old code, they would be going around murdering adulterous women, gay people, people who ever worked on the shabbat... When it comes to law, old is not better.

Gods Arina that's a terrible thing to say! Ok guys those were bad people, but they were people. They had people caring about them, and some of them may have reformed later. If they had been killed in self defense by cops I wouldn't throw a fit, but here they were given no chance. There is value in all life, and I'm deeply disturbed to have to tell that to asaris.

There is something wrong with your translator I think, either on the word "destructive" or the word "obviously". Killing 18 people is destructive.

Well maybe an actual law enforcement officer will come on the thread and explain how interrogating suspect is really, really important.

The murder, since it's still not clear.

Ok Justicar apologists, answer me this. You're asari. You're long lived. You never ever knew someone who at some point in their life made bad choices? Hang out with the wrong crowd? Well imagine a justicar came around just at that time to wipe out said wrong crowd. Oops right?

And in case you don't know such people, I know plenty. My job is to take care of them. They're kids with little to no resources. Some of them were coerced into working with gangs, some of them did it because they had to feed their friends, and rich people right below couldn't care less. All they needed was another opportunity, many of them jumped at the chance of a more honest living.
From an external point of view they looked like rather young gangers. A cop would see the difference. A justicar wouldn't care.

And finally, if you really think all criminals and anyone who associate with them should die painful death, what happens when someone you care about just happen to be in a justicar's way? Or is taken as a criminal by good old mistake? Will you still feel comforted as you cry over the bodies of your loved ones, while the rest of the asari people cheer at the "trash being taken out"?

I for one don't see what the big deal is. These were criminals who had stolen goods needed for the recovery effort and had probably committed a few murders along the way, along with who knows how many other crimes. Personally I don't adhere to their black and white view of the galaxy, but they have their uses.

I met one, once, a few centuries ago. Okay, so 'met' might be a bit of an overstatement, we briefly exchanged hellos. I was still working as a commando at the time, but I was (relatively) new and hotheaded. I wanted to do any sort of work that involved whatever mission she was on, but was expressly commanded to stay out of her way. I never did find out what she was after, but I had heard rumors that she was after an ardat-yakshi or a pirate warlord or something else mean and scary.

You mean like Special Tactics and Reconnaissance, who are hailed as heroes all over Citadel space?

Maybe those who cared for them will now go on with a reminder that that sort of criminal lifestyle doesn't pay off, rather than have living proof that it does.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the article didn't say the Justicar went in guns blazing. I'd believe they started shooting just as soon as they saw someone who didn't belong there, or at the very least threatening her. Unless she snuck in, or really did shoot first before they knew what hit them, which I would also believe.

Basically mostly what Lady Ceril said.

This is not how it works, this is also not how lawmaking in the Republics works. We don’t have the many written laws you do and never had. We have quite an amount of regulations for business and daily life which are subject to the public vote and to constant adaptation but not so much on the level of criminal law a Justicar operates on. The guidelines are still the same as millennia ago as well, you should see it more like principles of society.

I have heard that there were some crass changes in human law history, especially regarding even ridiculous things like those you mentioned. It never was like this in asari history, not since the tribal days. The judgment on the individual was always the main principle of guidance; it actually is the origin of the code. The code is probably even more extensive than the actual Matriarchal criminal law in my home republic.

A Justicar is not roaming the country shooting left and right for theft of bubble gum or tax evasion. Mostly they focus on specific cases, sometimes even for personal reasons and finish the job by the code. They usually won’t even get distracted by other things happening in the same area. A Justicar just wouldn’t be able to finish anything if she would. There are also notable examples of Justicars in history that retired themselves after accomplishing a specific task. Meaning they killed themselves after having served their purpose.

In this day and age it is much more likely to be shot by a police officer than ever meet a Justicar anyway.

I think the salarian volunteers on Earth who were assumed to be STG would be very surprised to learn they were treated as heroes... And for the record, with all their fault, the STG uses investigation and gather actual proofs before action. And they know what "capture" means. And they're subject to oversight. They were even shackled by Linron for a good part of the reaper war.


Please, everyone know the death penalty does not work as a deterrant, especially since justicars are so rare. By the time you know one of her sight on you, it's too late to get scared since she will murder you anyway.

Me too. The only difference between us is that I don't think that's ok. You see real cops would have surrounded the ship, incapacitated it, and would have negotiated with the smugglers, keeping their force usage at a minimum. That's called being civilized.

@Taleeze : So you're telling me that instead of a rigid code of law you have guidelines. Which means that the rigid justicar, even if based on those guidelines (or at least a thousands years old interpretation of them) isn't actually your justice.


According to the media it entirely depends on Justicar. Some of them roam the fringe worlds, other pursue specific preys. In both case they use mass murder, and I'm still disturbed that you're ok with it.

I mean come on, you have cases of justicar mass murdering cops that tried to restrain them! You even laud them for such actions!

There I was, doubting their sanity and stability...


And you have more chances of dying in a transportation accident that being shot by a cop. I'm not sure how that weight in the debate though, for the people whose loved one have been killed by a justicar because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time, the odds are cold comfort.

Michelle, you confuse STG with SPECTRE.

Also, I do not laud the Justicars. Few do really. I respect them and I fear them. Their ruling is part of our justice system and it happens very ralely which is good since in anycase it is an extreme example of justice. There's nothing more to say or rationalize about it really.

Also, just not to be misunderstood, the Republics of course have written criminal laws but laws in general but they are very stable over centuries since the society they work for is as well. In comparison to human legislative works they are just much smaller in volume.

In a way the overregulation of Illium could be seen a contardicting social experiment for asari. I'd guess a Justicar would be illegal on Illium and maybe even prosecuted. I could imagine them trying to.

I do understand where you're coming from though. I greatly respect what you do at LTD!

Because if there was, dear, the Republics might open their eyes and realise that the modern galaxy moves too fast for years of debate, and that blindly preserving tradition simply makes the asari more and more outdated as the years pass by. And we couldn't have that now, could we?


Oh, please. Just because I'm with the better company doesn't mean you have to be childish about it. Really, posting in a thread purely to snipe at me / Eclipse? You could have at least pretended to have an opinion on the Justicars as well.


Except, of course, that the Code does permit 'response' - just use the word execution, dear, no need to beat around the bush - if someone is perceived to be obstructing a Justicar's path. So say a police officer holds a Justicar because they quite clearly have the intent to murder a citizen, who may well have done nothing wrong by the law but has done wrong by the Code. That police officer's life would be forfeit.


You say yourself that asari law and the Code don't line up, and yet you don't seem to grasp that idea. Then again, you don't seem to realise that 'constant adaptation' and 'still the same as millennia ago' also doesn't make any sense, so maybe you're just simple.


And in that case, said Justicar would murder every member of the NAPD (for example) that tried to apprehend her. The Republics's heroes, ladies and gentlemen.

Honestly, it perturbs me that it is the humans in this thread that seem to grasp the issue more than the asari. Just because the Matriarchs still think the Code is a good idea doesn't mean you have to, and it certainly doesn't mean that you should be defending mass murderers. Look through the records, find those Justicars that slaughtered entire villages to pursue a single Ardat-Yakshi or pirate, and just try to defend what they did.

Depending on your definition, I may be a mass murderer myself. But not in my four hundred years have I ever killed entire villages of civilians to fulfil a contract. The people I kill are not bystanders or accessories, but people who knew exactly what they were getting into. You can't say that for a Justicar's 'collateral damage'.