A debate about moron hanar and opinions

But they deserted Cerberus to stay on the Normandy-at least the big ones I think you're talking about.

Seriously, menagerie? That's the word you're going to use for the greatest collection of...they saved the galaxy! They brought revolution to their races! T'soni rewrote all our history! There's a reason Shepard gets worshiped as an Enkindler. It's not really about her individual awesomeness.

Wrex got the genophage fixed and led you into battle against something HUGE, and now you get to be part of the only civilization to live through the Reapers. If you held a vote tomorrow I think he'd win. What more could you possibly want?

I would rather not let the precedence established by the clanless stand uncontested. Your offended sensibilities are not my concern.[/quote]

It's just an idiot argument is all. Arguing over who is a real Krogan and has an authentic upbring and ughhh~

If I could forever ban the drell from those kinds of arguments I would.

I told you to leave trash, your pedigree and your self righteousness is not wanted nor needed here, despite your adamant belief that they are.

But lest we forget there was a long, comfortable period in which said terrorists and vandals had not yet cleaved from their masters and still remained in the company of the most holy commander.
And how does being in the correct place at the most opportune time with sufficient means merit one uncontested leadership? Saving (also saving, feh, they were pivots, the lives and deaths of the countless males and females who took up arms is as important if not moreso) the galaxy does not entitle one to command it.
There are entire nations and pacts and colonial worlds that persist outside his influence and for a just cause; the lives he bought for us are only more of the same, more gifts and more golden promises divorced from reality and effort. The right end by the wrong means.
An Overlord that comprehends the bonds of loyalty and service.
He is a failure of a warrior and a self-made fool. I would be remiss to allow the fattened clanless whelp to declaim without contravening.

Do you mean to imply that others actually obey when one such as yourself speaks?

What a wondrous galaxy and what twists and turns it holds. I could have scarcely imagined such an occurrence myself.

leave

Ser Archeos, if Wrex is such a failure as a warrior, list reasons why. He led clan Urdnot. Near as I can tell, he earned that position. He gathered together many krogan to try and unite them. But no, that's not good enough for you.

What you read as is someone who likes to pretend he knows what he's talking about. Yet you back up your arguments with "Anyone could have done it if they were in that position." And "It was luck."

Foolish. Whether anyone could have done it or whether it was luck does not matter. No one else did what Wrex did. You so-called "real krogan" did nothing to advance this. Rather than reaping the benefits you sit back and criticize. Or perhaps you are reaping the benefits while criticizing others for doing the same, in which case, you are a hypocrite.

Isadore... You add nothing to the argument by telling him to leave. Stop being a fool.

The "failure of a warrior" is the one from the mythical clan of Tomaj, though I suppose that yes the same could be said of the Urdnot. If you are inclined to dispute that I suggest you attend the reasons I have provided thusly.
Earning such a position, claiming such power, requires more than a throne and a fancifully worded title. There must be skill, not luck alone. There must be respect, not base dominion. There must be recognition and accordance afforded, not a forced mending of a "broken" people. The grand Whore is the kind of leader you and yours wish for us to have, a thing that will forsake his own for at place at your table.

I say we have no use for such a beast in our halls and, if you are so inclined to see him supped, you are welcome to him.
Whereas yourself, a half trained junior warrior who spent her life in the gutters of a station half a galaxy away are an expert on all things krogan.
Save for Ghurst, the Northern Plains Alliance, Gruul, Corel, and all their brethren. But he has the support of the alien and so he is the only one granted the boon of recognition.
Or perhaps we are attempting to forge our own paths in this galaxy, outside of our dear, blessed Leader's plans.

Half-trained? Hardly. I'll give you the rest, but I never claimed to be an expert. Just that your claims ring hollow. You clearly underestimate Urdnot Wrex's skill, but you need him to be without skill in order for your argument to have a base.

Gathering allies is hardly a weakness. And from what I understand, he was doing such among the krogan without non-krogan help prior to the Reaper War. And one thing you learn from being a duct rat? Luck is a skill on its own.


I'll admit to not knowing krogan history that well. Those names mean nothing to me.

Or perhaps we are attempting to forge our own paths in this galaxy, outside of our dear, blessed Leader's plans.[/quote]

If you say so.

Oh come on. This is basic galactic politics.

Gruul/The Theocracy of Gruul was a powerful and influential Nemean Abyss state that was at the forefront of bio-tech research until its fall in the Reaper War. They burned planets and cracked nations and invented the Hierophant. They destroyed fleets and shaped politics in regions of the Terminus, necessitating alliances like the Ad'Thoro Pact. Corel Heavy Industry was, and is, a major manufacturer of both arms, armor and starships. Ghurst and the NPA are enormous, influential Tuchankan Krogan factions.

This isn't even Krogan History, this is contemporary politics.

Alien you are remiss in your responsibilities, as I understand it the expectation is that you respond to what was said before you regale us with your own proclamations.
Dissolution and the palming of fortune and favor marks only a coward and a weakling, one who cannot manage his underlings and lives in fear of his lessers and his equals. A Warlord much less an Overlord must be able to rely upon their own strength first and foremost, he must be secure in his status. Luck is luck, it is not a skill, it cannot be trained or instilled and by its nature it is fickle and untrustworthy. Hardly a secure foundation for a throne; much less the haunches that overburden it so.
As the turian said those are the names of modern krogan empires, nations, and corporations; not dusty, forgotten ruins on some desolate windswept plain.

Forgive me for not following protocol in an extranet debate.


Right. What you state may be true, but you imply things about Urdnot Wrex which you have no proof for other than "He worked with aliens."


Luck as a skill is using that luck, good or ill. And many things that people claim to be luck are actually just manifestations of skill that are so complex that it seems to be luck. Perhaps luck brought Wrex near the tools he needed, but he had the skill to use those tools. He isn't leader because of some kowtowing to Aliens. He's leader because he earned that place.


Forgive me for not immediately looking up the names and making an assumption, but like I said, this is an extranet debate. I have little to no chance of changing your mind. The only thing that comes out of this is you showing what makes you tick, and perhaps some education for the readers and myself.

Oh but I thought we were standing on such protocol, if this was going to trend towards informality I would have not been troubled to oblige.
That is...wholly untrue. In fact, I am offended that you would intimate my disparaging of the Urdnot Slattern was confined only to his reliance upon the alien and the reject.
I believe the word you are searching for is intelligence, or perhaps wisdom or experience or instinct. Those would suit your general thrust nicely. And yet it is only his and yours that hold him to be our leader. I do not answer to him, I do not venerate him or the rocky, rubble strewn soil beneath his boots. I am of Clan Glas, servants of Clan Vynchar. My loyalty, my toil, and my pride lay elsewhere from that mockery of a throne. The Great Whelp is not my king, not my Overlord and I shall not bend the knee before him. But as I have said, my thoughts on the matter, the thoughts of my kinsmen, the thoughts of our brother Clans and our brood-siblings in spirit count for little to thine.

And if you must inquest as to why this is the case, I heartily recommend that you look to the words above.

But that is precisely the point is it not? Rather than invest the effort you presumed. Rather than uncover some spare, useful morsel of knowledge yourself you consigned we who are outside that bastardry, that cruelty of a nation, to the dim recesses of interesting but irrelevant.

And yet you dispute the prevalence of that predilection even so.

I concede the point that there are krogan outside of the alliance and that Wrex does not rule over all the krogan race. That was never my assertion, forgive me if I had implied that. Also, forgive my earlier assumption that your clan was under the alliance. Still, you did benefit from what Wrex has done. All krogan benefited from the actions of Wrex and his allies. However, now that I know you are from a clan that is not a part of his alliance, your beliefs make that much more sense. That was the missing puzzle piece. Thank you.


To be fair, I file most politics and such as interesting but irrelevant. I don't watch holos, nor do I read much news. The only news I get is from the aggregator this site uses. Yes, there are a number of interesting things going on in the galaxy, but very little of it concerns me. My original argument was that an individual does not reflect on his or her entire species. However, leaders are not normal individuals. They are representatives of their species.

You yourself do not represent the whole of the krogan people. Wrex represents his faction, and his faction, similar to the Systems Alliance for humans prior to the Reaper War, are the galactic representation of your species. If you don't like that, find a way to change it. Preferably one that doesn't involve having your species wipe itself out. That would be too messy.

Isadore is not a representative of the krogan people. Neither are you. (I will say you are far more well-spoken than he is though, and I appreciate that.)

Now, it's getting late and I really should be dealing with my sleep cycle. Not all of us have secondary nervous systems which we can use to keep us awake.

Just gonna skip the 'no REAL Tuchankan' argument above to get this back on-topic.


Because the jellies never Rebelled.

We gave you planets, territories, resources and honour. Tides, you even got a memorial on the Presidium for beating the Rachni (or, y'know, "let's not kill 'em all and say we did", but whatevs).

And what did you do with it all? You invaded our worlds, killed and enslaved our people, you desecrated Lusia and dared the Council to stop you, starting three hundred years of warfare. You fucking rock lizards killed billions and rendered whole worlds uninhabitable before we cut your fucking balls off.

Even after the Genophage, when we gave your people a second chance to step away from the bloodshed, all you could do was go whore yourselves out to any two-bit merc band with the creds to hire some cheap, dumb muscle.

Ever since you stepped onto the galactic stage, the krogan have been nothing but disposable brutes, all savagery and low cunning instead of art or civilisation.

And you ask why nobody likes your pathetic, mongrel species?

Tides and fucking waves.

So much hatred for us and yet not one ounce of derision towards the salarians who started the war with the Rachni nor the salarians who deemed it necessary to uplift us.

Maybe if your highly vaunted asari warriors were as impressive as you think they actually did something in that war you wouldn't have us to deal with.

I'll try to spare a tear or two for all the incompetence your species have displayed.

Perhaps the salarians would have benefited more if they had done what we had done with the compactees. Too much was given to the krogan in too short a span.

Do you have hobbies other than racism? You know holos are pretty great these days.

Perhaps the salarians should not have interfered at all.

Notice how the only krogan to address my points doesn't even try to defend the Rebellions? That should really answer your question, OP.


Pretty much, yeah. The rachni started their war, and the frogs at least had the decency to put you lot back in your place once you started acting all entitled and shit.


We don't throw our children at klixen and harvesters and call it an 'initiation'. Tides.

I'd have thought you'd've stopped that once, y'know, genophage, but I guess basic numeracy skills take a couple of dozen generations to kick in for you, hey?

('Sides, none of your lot have shit on the Cadres. 'Throw waves of children at them' only worked against the Reapers because your average husk was no smarter than your average krogan.)


Mate, if as many Reapers had hit your shit-hole of a world as landed on Thessia, there wouldn't be any of you left.


Nah, the drell are at least people like the rest of us. The only mistake the frogs made was not putting their toys back in the box when they were done playing with them.

This would also be reasonable. Though, it believes that the krogan could have been forced to adapt if the most honorable salarians had, as some would say, have kept a stronger hold on their toys.

Perhaps even a smaller scale genophage could have been used beforehand to curb the destructive krogan breeding for one.

The, this one hopes this isn't rude, sightedness of the salarians cost the galaxy a great asset and untold damage to the galaxy.

The turians did that, the only other species to show some spine at the time.


Only the strong have the right to survive.


I talk of the rachni here, not the reapers. But I guess we can talk about both wars. Your cadres stood so well on their own that you must have done so well in both wars. Oh wait, that doesn't sound right. I seem to recall your highly vaunted warriors losing for about a century before we showed up, then experiencing the same problem when fighting us six centuries later, then going on to experience, once again, the same problem another twelve centuries later. Your arrogance is impeccable my dear.

Your argument about intelligence is accepted. That low a level of intelligence would occur to anyone who is only uplifted for the sole purpose to fight a war that no one else can win and in the process only given technology for killing.


A might have been is pointless drivel attempting to sound intelligent. Try harder please.


We are not toys that you can throw at something that scares you.