Question for slavers

History as a species and culture. In the case of humanity, when we held slaves, which was as soon as three hundred years ago publically, slaves were seen as "less" than their owners. The idea of equality to all people means that the standards set for slaves are faulty. Regardless of treatment of the slave, you can't have a slave who is equal to the master. So slavery doesn't work that way.

Slaves, being seen as less, were also often mistreated, so the connotations that go with slavery for humanity are the mental history of an overseer with a whip, cracking the back of "lazy" slaves who were overworked. This is not a pleasant mental image.

From what I understand, slavery in the Hegemony was both different and the same. You may have people who willingly surrender their freedom, but you also have people who were taken from their homes, from their families, and from their parents, who were enslaved to people who thought they were less because they were different.

Basic empathy? I don't know that you need real deep philosophy for this one. The golden rule (man, I wouldn't like to lose my legal rights and have all my labour stolen) or super basic utilitarianism (wow, all that stolen labour is cocking up the economy. Also, people are really unhappy about the fact that their children might be taken in slave raids) is enough to handle it.

I am frankly embarassed that we are still arguing this one.

Personal experience. I'd imagine you, as a geth, would object to slavery automatically, as you've already experienced what its like to be a sapient being without the ability to determine your own destiny.

Sooner or later, the slaves die after a life without their potential ever given a chance to be realized, or they rebel, and in most cases are put down, or very rarely, succeed, and still result in a great deal of lives lost.

There are slavers like the insipid Bintar, who, realizing that they increase the longevity of their disgusting practice by granting their "products" a semblance of normality, but they still continue to deny them their most important right, and have the arrogance to believe that they have the right to do so.

They do not allow them to decide their own future.

What these "Enlightened" overlook is that everyone denies the freedoms of others regularly to service their own ends. People regularly, no matter the species, will always look out for themselves and help others when they have something to gain from it. Slavery is just an example of this that has gone out of practice, but still can make people money if they live the right spot. Otherwise it wouldn't exist at all.

The fact is, there no universe where people can freely allow others to determine their "Destiny" because power and influence are finite. Only those with the will and ability can hold onto it, and everyone else will either try to subvert, or accept what scraps are left behind.

The right to self determine is for the people who enlist with us the same as the right to walk for someone who has no leg. It's something they're just incapable of doing. In societies without a slave caste those people are left to their own devices, grow poor or criminal, and are scorned because of their inability to manage their own life. They'll spend their money on frivolities and/or make life-changing decisions on a whim and/or do drugs, and generally live a short and miserable life.
We prefer to care for them and allow them to be productive members of society.

A functionally valid statement. However, with no overt method of affecting user 4Eyes4TheWin's activity, directly antagonizing the subject would prove counterproductive.

I guess I credit my family an' my clan for makin' me morally opposed to slavery. I mean, they died because people wanted to make us do what their government said an' not what we believed in. My clan took me in, and they lived a hardscrabble existence because so much of their time, credits and energy was given to the cause of freedom.

So, much as my people have been described as tough, uncompromising, and hard - we don't believe it's right for the strong to torment, enslave, or slaughter the weak, or the 'different from us'. It goes against our fundamental principle - the whole reason we fight is to defend our land which can't defend itself.

Your metaphors are as weak as your reasoning. To begin with, a person lacking a leg can get a prosthetic, and with effort, live as much of a life as anyone. The same can be said for a person unfamiliar with freedom and its benefits.


Your arrogance and prejudice are plain to see. They could only be poor or criminals. They could never, ever, make something of themselves. And even if they didn't, with you they lack not only the opportunity to find out for themselves, they will be limited in their experience of what life has to offer. Families, separated, friendships liable to break when some has been purchased by a new owner, and forget about romantic relationships, when you may very well be considered a stud, and placed with the right people .

Not to mention how much doubt that out of the ten species you purport to have, that all of them came to you willingly.


And make a great deal of money on sapient life while you're at it, as your crass perpetual advertisement makes clear.


Perhaps. Or, to put it in a way that you might better understand, while my antagonism is evidence of my personal distaste for people like him, I'd like to believe that by continually undermining their warped justifications, I can ensure in some small way that accurate information is kept available where it might otherwise be.

Until I have the ability to personally dismantle their organization and ensure the well being of those in bondage, words are the only weapon I have.

I can only answer this thread from the perspective of someone whose caregivers decided the best way to spare me a lifetime of poverty was to turn me into a contract killer. While I believe they did their best, I also have had to live with the repercussions of this decision and remain convinced that there are better ways.

Mr. Slaves4Us, the motives of your caregiving are strongly in question. I find it difficult to believe the welfare of your charges is your top priority.

I'm not talking about being unfamiliar with freedom, just not able to handle it. Freedom is not something that we can biologically manage like oxygen. Some of us can't manage it, that's where WE become the prosthetic, if you will.


Those who can do something of themselves are not the slave caste. And members born in the slave caste can actually change caste if they demonstrate they're able to handle self determination.


Well the slaves from the convict outreach program aren't willing yes, but between that and jail...


The people who build prosthetic make money and advertisement all the same. It doesn't mean they aren't proud of what they bring to the galaxy. I know I am.


Actually Slaves4Us is my company, you can call me Bintar, Mr Ranak, or 4Eyes4TheWin. Don't worry it's a surprisingly common misconception.

Now about the welfare of my charges, in traditional batarian culture the quickest way to judge the worth of someone is how he treats his slaves. Having miserable slaves is scorned upon and it can be perfectly justified for a higher class batarian to just seize what you own if you can't care for it.
Now this may come as a surprise since those precepts weren't exactly respected by the most visible slavers in the Terminus, but Slaves4Us strives to bring back those values.

To summarize:

Objections to slavery, as expressed by participants in this thread, is largely based on experentail data from either first or second hand sources. In addition, the ability to envision one's self in such circumstances and perrcieve such a state as undesirable.

Further clarification requested: Hypothetically, if a species or culture existed in which slaves were universally treated humanely and desired such a state of subjection, would these objections, as defined above, be relieved?

Weren't the Geth treated pretty decently up until the Quarians started capping them? And they were/could have been programmed to enjoy the subjection?

If slaves desired a state of subjugation then it ain't slavery. It's naturally submissive people finding a relationship that worked for them. The difference is the second they change their mind they can start acting on that change.

People say turians have a thing for this because most of us feel good if we have someone in charge of us telling us what to do; thing is we also crave someone under us who we can order around. And the other thing is, if we change our minds, we have the liberty to act accordingly.

In a purely hypothetical situation such as that? No.

To elaborate, by its nature, slavery is abhorrent. Owning another sentient being is reducing them to little more than a pet, when sapient life should be more highly valued than that.

Slavery has and always will exist. It is merely what the individual does that matters.

As an addendum: there are cases in which a person desires enslavement, but these subjects are few and far between. I believe we had an example of such a character on this very forum not too long ago.

Then almost by definition, they would not be slaves. The only addendum I would add to that description is the choice to leave such an existence, if a person wanted to do something else, for whatever reason.



By the pillars, you can't even keep your stupid metaphors straight. I never said freedom was the equivalent of oxygen, but that a person can learn to adapt and utilize it. You're not the prosthetic in the metaphor, you're the landmine that took away their leg in the first place, because so long as they are with you, they will never learn how to accept freedom.


This questionable justification loses any validity when I point that any non batarian is automatically casteless, save extraordinary circumstances, and will remain so for the remainder of their lives as slaves. The hypothetical latter of advancement is denied them.


Uh huh, sure, they're all criminals, including the raloi you say you have out of the select few that didn't make it back home before they cut themselves off. The extreme unlikelihood of this further illustrates that you're almost certainly full of it. What prison parts with its inmates for a fee, and under who's criminal justice system were they tried?

This, more than anything, reveals how despicable you are. You're equating people with objects. I doubt you caremuch about the caste system beyond means of a moral justifier.

called it

Hey Dwick

Replies to these queries have failed to produce significant deviations from established parameters based on research into the topic of slavery among organics, allowing for standard discrepancies based on avalible information into external influential factors.

As a result, no further inquiry is necessary. The participation of posters has been noted and archived for later review of similar research subjects. Your participation is appreciated.

YER RIGHT