Abyss Cult gains traction in Citadel Space

Abyss Cult gains traction in Citadel Space

Over the past several months, a disturbing rash of conversions to the Va'liat cult has plagued Thessia, Earth, Palaven and even the Citadel itself. The trend comes amid a resurgence of belief in spirituality across Citadel Space, which some experts are claiming are due to the actions of blatantly predatory preachers across Citadel Space. The Va'liat cult in particular is concerning because it doesn't bother with even the overtures of peacefulness that most Citadel Space Religions abide by.

Experts claim that the Va'liat is especially dangerous because of its origins as an abyss-based cult of warfare, one that shamelessly uses conquest to expand its territory. These are claims that the Va'liat hasn't even bothered to refute, instead defending its egregious use of force to take territory in a series of public announcements.

Several organizations, like Skeptics Galactic, have been taking action and attempting to stem the tide of conversions by denouncing Va'liat and other cults, especially earth based ones like Christianity and Islam, but unfortunately these efforts have, so far, been in vain. Harinex Garat, a representative with Skeptics Galactic, said, "It's unfortunate, but in the post-reaper galaxy the average citizen is incredibly irrational. While we're doing all we can, we can't combat this predatory preaching without real legal action from the council do stem the tide, something they're utterly unwilling to do despite its blatant necessity."

So, er, how do you avoid these va'ilats, or whathaveyou? I mean, there's two articles on them, and if they're here on the Citadel then I want to be able to see them coming. Does anyone know what they dress like? How you recognise them?

...Look, on one hand, people have called the indiginous faith of Solregit a "cult of warfare," which, as a priest of said faith, I find extremely objectionable, and it makes me wonder whether someone is grossly misinterpreting the beliefs of a minority they don't understand;

and on the other hand, if the Va'liat truly want to try conversion-through-conquest here in Denakot, they'll find out just how much we value the old ways, and what we will do to keep them.

Pff.

The Va'liat aren't that bad. Knew a few on Omega. Decent folks if you didn't piss 'em off. And they always gave out free cookies near the church in my old neighborhood.

At least, that one old lady did. I know she was Va'liat, but I don't know if that was a church thing or just something she did.

Yeah, I get the same thing, except the word "uncivilized" or "savage" is usually attached somewhere.

We have lots of laws for keeping violent people in line-if we need to reign them in, we can use those, rather than attacking their religion directly.

I must have missed the Va'liat in my studies. I shall have to rectify this. As to the Skeptics I say lay off. Religion in general is a big mess of inspiration, belief, tradition, social context and who knows what else. Capice and Silver Future are both right, there are plenty of other ways to handle any dangerous behaviors. Let the religion itself stand.

...So did it just not occur to those of you buying this swill, I'm just asking out of curiosity you understand, that the blatantly biased article with a massive, throbbing hardon against religion (I will refer you to the fact that the author's considers "taking action and attempting to stem the tide of conversions by denouncing Va'liat and other cults, especially earth based ones like Christianity and Islam" to be laudable) might not be factually correct?

Maybe?

Perhaps?

Possibly?

Get out.

You petition your representative to make them wear a yellow star, then we'll start putting them in camps so that they don't bother you, you delicate flower of c-space you.

This one was more surprised they did not go for the obvious Enkindler preachers.

Speaking of which, some of its fellows are positively delighted at the, this being a direct quote, 'competition'.

Look, not everyone who posts here is used to the crime and violence, or sudden demographic changes due to war. That's an unfortunate necessity of where we are now, but the galaxy is divided into two halves for a reason. The Terminus types seem to just shrug and accept gang warfare and cults and factionalism as a fact of life and mock those of us who are uncomfortable with them. Well you know what? The Terminus and C-space looked very different prior to the Reapers equalizing everything. Why do you think that was? Have you considered that the reason C-space looked very different to the Terminus was that we were cautious about these things? That if we welcome people to our communities we want to make sure they live by the laws of the Council, and that's why we stagger their participation? Every other day on here there's an article about cultists or sectarian violence or general unrest in the Terminus Systems, and I happen to think that if it's going to be imported here than I have every right to be cautious.

I get that demographics are going to shift dramatically after a war this, this all-consuming, this massive. That's inevitable. It takes time for it all to settle down, I get that. But that's the point - a lot of us want things to settle, and seeing Terminus ideologies take root on your space station doesn't seem promising in that regard, you know? Because those are the ideologies and the assumed norms and the approach to life that made the Terminus Systems the Terminus to begin with.

I mean, when you hear of Terminus forces arriving in C-space en masse, with their traditions intact, you think "what's to stop them making C-space just like the Terminus?" No-one's saying they should be... rounded up or deported or anything extreme like that - I haven't heard *anyone* here talking about moving against these people or driving them out, just people trying to secure themselves, find out what they're up against, take steps to shore up their own positions, you know? This is CDN, so if anyone's going to go full-on lunatic about it, it'll be here, right? But all I see is protests and caution, and I think the caution is nothing but sensible.

Standing your ground against encroaching ideologies that might prove difficult for you, that's what it is. The Terminus types do it all the time, to a far greater extent, too - which is why they're in constant chaos, I might add - and now they're mocking us for taking to heart the lessons they've been providing! I want to be able to secure what little I have, and if the war's taught me to be cautious of strangers with overly zealous philosophies, then I'm not apologizing. I never said the va'liats should be kicked off the station or anything - they're here now, and that's that. But I want to know if they're coming and I think a lot of other people do too.

It's not because they worship differently - okay, this article might go for the "religion bad" angle, but that's just the article. We're not comfortable because we don't know if they're going to just continue living like they're still in the Terminus, and we have enough problems here already.

I'm just going to stop your right here and highlight this as the core of your profoundly cowardly philosophy. The difference, the only difference really, between the Council and the Terminus is that the Council does not identify as Terminus. In fact the literal definition of Terminus is "regions of space not claimed by the Council". If we expand that to include "regions of space not administrated" that is to say "defended" by the Council, then even prior to the War the Terminus systems encompassed the vast majority of the known galaxy. Post-War that margin has only expanded with the inclusion of species and governments that have parity if not superiority to the member nations of the Citadel itself (the Confederacy, Consensus, and the Rachni Hives within a generation or two most notably) and the degradation of the asari and salarian power blocs.

It is likely, very likely in fact, that within several decades the current definitions of "civilized" and "uncivilized" that you employ will be completely obsolete rather than merely antiquated. Thus it is a tad disingenuous to imply that the Terminus is a lawless hellhole when the only thing that separates your own government from being a particularly well off nation in that region is membership in an organization that has expressed less than amiable views towards your politics.

Sections of the Terminus are unclaimed yes. Sections of it are settled and well administrated. Sections of it recognize a Multigovernmental standard of behavior. Other sections do not. Sections are war-torn hellholes. Sections are also peaceful, well defended, and stable. There is, shockingly in an area of space that vast, a range of conditions.

To reduce all of that to a faceless alien entity with generalized policies in order to maintain your own horrendously insular views smacks of idiocy, self delusion, or a general lack of courage. Though, to be perfectly frank, none of those options are mutually exclusive.

Thank you.

the only difference between c-space and Terminus is that the bribes are cheaper in Terminus

Your attempts at co-opting the cultured tones of a dead Terran language are somewhat undermined by your profound inanity and apparently extreme allergy to punctuation.

That's what I'm afraid of. You think I don't know how little separates us from the Terminus? If I didn't before, I do now. And I tuned in to that radio show last night - I know this idea that we're heading to some sort of division between the Union and the rest of the Council is starting to get around. It seems to me, though, that too many people are defending that sort of disunity. This idea that we can't strive for higher standards or something bigger, that we all just have to accept the legitimacy of anything and anyone because no-one knows how to get along anymore. The goal should be to stitch the Terminus together so it's more like the Council, not fracture C-Space to make it more like the Terminus!

I mean, what went wrong? We had that conference here earlier in the year, about some of the former members rejoining the Citadel. At the time I thought it was premature - we need to stagger these things, like I said - but now I think that was the right idea. If we don't stand for something better, if C-Space is just going to be another part of the galaxy, if the Terminus is going to swallow us all so that the idea of the Terminus isn't even meaningful anymore... then what's the point?

I can add that Solregit used to be in the Terminus, my ancestors settled it after "losing" the "Unification Wars", turning our backs on the Hierarchy, and settling our own colony, and we had a few hundred years of peace.

Then the Hierarchy expanded its borders, Solregit was informed that it was now part of the Hierarchy, we were suddenly in C-Space, and the civil war began.

To quote the esteemed Doctor Mexta "Such arrogance". But no really that is an incredibly arrogant stance to take, firstly the assumption that the Terminus could or needs to be united under a singular sovereign agency in order to function and secondly the belief that the Council is the one to do it versus someone, say, that has not politically isolated themselves from the entire region as much as possible.

Why, pray tell, is the factional and divided governing agency that could not, and cannot, defend its own territory before and after the war in a unified manner (I'm looking at you Nimbus, Verge, and Traverse) the end all be all of governance? Do not mistake me, I'm not implying that the Council is wholly impotent, merely stating that the system of administration that reduces its major constituents to atrophied bureaucracies clinging to one central directive has its own share of dysfunction.

A rather large share.

And what is wrong with that?

No, seriously, what is wrong with the current definitions of "Terminus space" and "Citadel space" becoming effectively meaningless and instead there simply being..."space"? Why is, as you say, "C-Space just going to be another part of the galaxy" so apocalyptically horrible?

Yes, obviously those horrible foreigners have no idea how to live their lives, we should impose our standards on them as the model for civility and legitimate government!

You know, it's very telling regarding the sort of people who frequent CDN, that everyone seems to ascribe agendas of force to you whenever you make a stand on something. I never said that the goal in question should be achieved through imposing ourselves on others or through coercion, did I, but once again that's the assumption being made. If I think a certain way of doing things is better than alternatives, it doesn't mean I'm going to start forcing others to change. I just think they should.

This is what I'm saying though - first, the idea that we have to be equally accepting of all ways of doing things, then the assumption of aggression and conflict when there's disagreement. How is this not a recipe for escalating disaster? This is exactly what I'm fearful of. To be honest, it sort of makes me nervous about where this galaxy is going; it's like it's becoming second nature even here. It's easier to break things down than to build them, and people seem almost committed to breaking things down.

No of course not, I have no idea how anyone would get that impression.

Nobody's saying you must accept everything on equal footing, for example I maintain that the asari Republics are, fundamentally, hilariously inept. Rather what we're actually saying is that your reasoning for mistrusting them should be on something better than "I'm insecure and they make me afraid".

OK, look, Phraag, buddy. I'm going to burst your bubble a bit.


Yeah, because C-Space unity was totally a thing to begin with. The salarians and the asari really jumped to help defend Earth and Palaven and the asari didn't hide the fact that they were in possession of a beacon holding information critical to galactic survival.


A lot of T-Spacers have tried.

The Council keeps sending the STG and Spectres to knock down anyone that looks like they might pull it off and potentially threaten C-Space military and economic supremacy (or in the case of the more megalomaniacal T-Space leaders out there, they kill the ones that might decide to go to war with the Council on a lark). So, fuck it.


And I thought that the Confederation was going to go places two years ago.

Nothing went wrong. You just got used to the idea that things aren't going to go your way because you're not in the driver's seat.


A winner is you, Phraag. You finally reached the conclusion I did.


Well...yeah.


Largely because there's no real way to make things you need to have done happen, other than through mutually agreeing to leave each-other alone and divvy up territory so you don't have to kill each-other. Rule-by-force-rule-by-wealth-gang-shit-etc. moving on.


That's what happens when there's disagreements.


Partially because a lot of people are disillusioned with the Council, I think. It's a government that, ultimately, didn't unify the way it always should have on paper when the chips were down (asari dragged their feet, salarians fucked off, everyone else got hung out to dry at one point or another, etc.). The vast majority of people have lost friends or family of some kind.

After a certain point, you need to stop giving a damn, and I think a lot of C-Spacers have hit that point since the full cost of the conflict (both sapient and otherwise) has finally started to sink in. This is just a side-effect.

And then...well, Spectres. My opinion of Spectres is well-known. Council-mandated military-police force meant to enforce the rule of law by operating outside the rules? Sounds like someone's making an active attempt to prop up an inherently-kinda-fucked system. The existence of the Spectres in the first place is something I like to consider an indicator that the entire Council thing was bullshit to begin with. And, really, I don't think I'm off-base with that one.